Welcome to Leadership Worth Sharing, a podcast in which ACEVO chief executive Jane Ide chats with civil society leaders about their professional experiences, challenges, wellbeing, and their journeys in the sector.
In this episode, ACEVO chief exec Jane Ide talks to Matt Hyde, chief executive of the Lloyds Bank Foundation, about endings and beginnings, leading through challenge and the importance of creating communities.
Transcript
Jane Ide 00:02
Hi, I’m Jane Ide, chief executive of ACEVO, and you’re listening to leadership worth sharing. Join me while I chat to civil society leaders about their professional experiences, challenges, well being and their journeys in our sector. In this episode, I talk to Matt Hyde, chief executive of the Lloyds Bank Foundation about endings and beginnings, leading through challenge and the importance of creating communities.
Jane Ide 00:33
So welcome, Matt. It’s great to have you with us, and I’m really looking forward to this conversation, because I know from conversations you and I have had in the past that you are a very thoughtful and reflective leader with a real passion for the sector, not just for for the work that you yourself have done. But I’d like to start, if I can, just by kind of drawing out some of your career paths, if you like. So you started your chief exec career in the world of student unions, and I think you started at Goldsmiths Students Union, then went on to become chief executive the National Union of Students. Then you went to the Scouts, and you now head at the Lloyds Bank foundation. So I’m really curious to know, is there, is there a thread that links those roles for you and how you see your role in the sector?
Matt Hyde 01:18
Well, thanks, Jane. It’s good to be here. It’s only taken us about a year to get it in the diary. So we’re fine. We’re finally here, and I’m I’m delighted to be talking to you. So was there a thread with all of those? Well, I think in a way, the thread is about community impact, and to understand that, you probably have to understand my upbringing, which was growing up in the Fens, in a small town in Cambridgeshire, I grew up above a family business, which was established in 1876 and really I sometimes joke, it was run like a not for profit, not just because it didn’t make any profit, but actually because the whole ethos of that upbringing was about the contribution to the community and the shop. And mum and dad in particular, were so focused on not just running a business, but running a business that was making a difference to the town we were in, but the towns around us as well. So right from 1876 there used to be a horse and cart that went out into the fence to provide goods services to people who couldn’t get into Ramsey. And that kept going until the 1990s and we were sort of saying, my memory is of growing up is a whole room full of soap powders. So, I mean, we were a furniture shop, but the the reason why we did that was because it didn’t make any money, but it was about how we made the biggest contribution to the community around us. A Mum and Dad would volunteer sort of four or five times a week. They still are in their 80s. The whole ethos of it was about service. And I think you know, mum dad also very heavily involved in the church. So that ethos of community development and your contribution as an individual, and the contribution of the business, you know. So I then inevitably became involved in things like scouts. I The first time I ever fundraised was for the first ever Comic Relief 40 years ago. I’m now vice chair of comic relief. So when I then went to first member the family to go to go to university, I suppose it was inevitable, in a way, that I would get involved in the student movement, because that’s the same ethos. It’s about community. It’s about building social capital. It’s about championing others, and then from there. Well, you know, the scouts is the definitive community organisation, you know, and in our case, it was in the UK, it’s 8000 separate charities. It’s 5% of all charities in in England and Wales. And globally, there are 57 million scales all working in very local communities to make a difference and make a contribution to help other people. So then, after about 1011, years at scouts, I realised I wanted to do something different. I really different, and I always wanted to do something I’ve been the private sector, but I didn’t really know how I would do that in a purpose driven way. And what’s interesting about Lloyds Banking Group, who obviously fund the Lloyds Bank foundation is their mission is about helping Britain prosper. And there is a very impressive chief executive and chair who are very, very authentically and. Thoughtful about the contribution of the group, which includes not just Lloyds Bank, but Halifax and Scottish Widows and others, about how we can make the biggest contribution as a group, but also what that means for us as a foundation. And I suppose when I when I co founded the big help out with Katherine Johnston, which is the this big volunteering festival. I really, really that made me think a lot about if we’re going to make the biggest social impact, we can’t do it alone as civil society and as the charity sector. So it What drew me to the foundation was almost going full circle about that purpose driven business and what that might do at scale to really champion turbo charge and empower civil society in all its glory, because you can’t help Britain prosper just by ensuring it’s thriving economically. It’s about community and it’s about social capital and social impact.
Jane Ide 06:07
One of the things I love about doing these podcasts is hearing people’s stories, and there’s always, or there always seems to be that thread that starts very early on in life, perhaps goes off down a slightly different track, and then somehow comes back round. And I think somebody who also grew up over the shop, I’m kind of curious to explore a little bit more. When you were coming to the end of your days in school, when you were going to university as a student, did you at that point feel that you were going to build a career in civil society, or was that a completely unknown possibility for you.
Matt Hyde 06:42
No, I wanted to be a journalist. And I did work experience at the Telegraph, EMAP. So what massive, massive publisher back in the back in the day, and I remember attending legal proceedings somewhere and thinking, I don’t want to write about this. I actually want to be making a difference rather than writing about making the difference. And it was at the same sort of time that I was getting into student unions. I became president of Queen Mary and then, and then the University of London union, and that, at that point, my aspirations changed. But there’s, you know, there’s this Steve Jobs quote about, you can only join the dots by looking backwards rather than looking forwards. And I think, interestingly, it’s a richer career. And I think as a result of now making a different career decision, actually, I’m learning much, much more that will, I think, make me a better and more impactful leader than if I’d have just done something similar to scales.
Jane Ide 07:57
Yeah, and I suppose that’s that’s an area that I’m really interested. To pull that thread a little bit, because I’ll be honest, you know, when I was looking at your your your career path in preparation for this, I thought, okay, yeah, Students Union scouts, kind of, you know, young people, similar sorts of things, kind of get the thread. And then Lloyds Bank Foundation, very different, I suspect, very different types of organisation, very different in terms of approach, in terms of mission, in terms of actually what the day job must feel like, I’m guessing. I mean, I remember coming to visit you at the scouts headquarters. I think just before you actually left, I imagine, I’m not quite sure where Lloyds Bank is, no, I think you’re at the NCBO building. Is that right? Yeah, yeah. Rather a different environment. Nice, nice offices, but a different environment. So how, how has that transition felt for you? And how did you prepare for that? And what did you feel about that leaving behind the world of the Scouts
Matt Hyde 08:51
Yeah, well, I’m certainly missing the 100 acre estate of Gilwell Park, which is like having a kind of country home or something. And very different being on the second floor of society building. Well, look, I mean, the first thing today is, I’m absolutely loving it. And there are three main things I talk about when people say, How’s it going? The biggest thing I would say is, I’ve got time to think, and that is such a rare commodity in the world of being a charity chief exec today, and I think that comes with quite a lot of responsibility, because I know for so many leaders who you’ll be dealing with, Jamie, they really struggle to find the capacity, because they are 24/7 whether you’re a small charity or whether you’re you’re A large charity, and the pressures, the different pressures that that come with that. Um, secondly, I’m learning loads. I think I’m learning, as I say, and learning as much as I’ve learned in years. I’m learning about the areas that we partner with, the charities we partner with, and the causes they support, whether that be refugees and asylum seekers or housing and homelessness and. Financial security, and I’m learning about the corporate world as well, and and the bank, which is fascinating. And then the third area is, you know, there’s a lot of talk about systems leadership and systems thinking. I think it’s very hard to be a really good systems leader. When you are leading a brand, it’s not impossible, and there are some great leaders across the sector who are role modelling what that looks like, but it is hard, because you get pulled back to your individual cause your brand. And so that’s one of the and one of the reasons why I sort of wanted to make the change as well is I looked across and I saw what was happening to charity leaders across the sector, including, you know, they were experiencing what I was experiencing at the time, which is, you’re on a roller coaster. It’s going on, you know, 150 miles an hour. It’s relentless, and that makes it hard then to really think about social impact in a thoughtful and meaningful way. I think, actually, I think I managed the transition pretty well. I mean, this is the, this is my fourth chief exec role, and and you learn from each of those, you learn how to exit better, I think, than I have done previously, and how you leave well, but also how you join an organisation. I’ve done the same thing from the fast from the past three chief exec roles, I’ve done, which is to ask the same five questions of as many stakeholders as possible. Before Christmas, I went round and wanted to get out on the field, in the field with my sort of feet on the ground. Met about 50 charity partners. Yeah, I think you get better at this stuff with the more, the more you do it. I think if there’s anything that I would, you know, do differently, I mean, it’s interesting. The quality of my thinking, I think it’s better now that I have left. So you could say, well, maybe I should have left girls earlier than 11 years. It’s quite easy to say this stuff with the benefit of hindsight, though, because, you know, probably 2020 would have been the time I was thinking about leaving originally, and then we had COVID and our membership dropped by 100,000 from about 460,000 to 360,000 lost about 16,000 volunteers who stepped back. Had to make a third of the staff redundant. It would have been very difficult to have left at that time. And as you know, I think we’ve been living with COVID in many ways since then, and I think the world was shaken up at the time, for obvious reasons, so but yeah, you know, I’m here now, and I’m really enjoying it.
Matt Hyde 09:07
I’m really struck by what you just said there. I’m reminded of something somebody said to me a while ago, which is because they were thinking about when they were going to leave their role. And she said, it’s really difficult to leave the ship when there are still fires burning on deck. I’m thinking back, you know, yes, COVID, absolutely. And that was when you and I first met, I think, working in that space, around around, supporting the sector to respond. But then there were a whole, or it seemed from the outsiders that there were a whole series of other issues while you were at Scouts that I imagine would have made it very difficult for you to leave at any point in the following three or four years. So are you able to share a little bit about that? And without necessarily going into all the detail, obviously, just to reflect on how for you as a leader, you found yourself having to navigate this continuing roller coaster of quite disparate and unconnected events, I suspect.
Matt Hyde 13:50
Well, you know, the great thing about Scouts is that it’s a national institution, you know, probably not dissimilar from National Trust or RNLI, or those sorts of large scale organisations. And that means that it’s an incredible canvas to do wonderful big change with. And you know, I’m really proud of the stuff we’ve done around launching, you know, Scouts for four and five year olds. You know, squirrels extending into areas of deprivation, about 1300 of those, and diversifying the movement. So you can do really, really big things that will have a major impact to the country. But the flip side of the scale of opportunity is the scale of risk. It’s interesting. I mean, I don’t think people always fully appreciate Scouts is one of those organisations the media and the public will always take an interest in, and we had to deal with a lot over the years with some of the stuff around culture wars. You know, woke scouts, trans issues, statues being pulled down. You. Had to deal with. You got high profile figures like Bear Grylls, where you know which will attract media interest as well. And you’ve got history as well. So you’re going back decades and decades and decades of practice. The reality is, the one thing that ever kept me awake at night was keeping kids safe. And you know that we did the biggest safeguarding review we’ve ever done in our history. In the early years of me being there, I’m really proud of that. But you’re constantly learning about how to modernise, deal with new challenges and threats posed by changes, for instance, in technology, new learning about how you keep young people and vulnerable adults safe. So that comes with a great responsibility, and that includes safety as well as safeguarding had high profile and challenging inquests, and how you deal with that situation. And then we had the world Scout Jamboree in Korea, where we were let down by the organisers, and we had to make the decision to relocate four and a half 1000 people from a very, very hot field in a 50 degree heat and ridiculous with the humidity from a field in Korea to Seoul and that all of that, and that was played out in front of the world’s media during the summer, and that at the time you deal with these things to the best of your ability, You, in the words of scouts, you do your best, but it does take its toll, because it’s cumulative stress. And I think it’s easier probably to recognise that now having less scouts than I probably did at the time when you’re in it, because you just put one foot in front of the other, you try and exercise the best judgement you can. You learn from things when they’ve gone wrong, both as an organizationally but as you as an individual as well. And some of those things came with a degree of of trauma without kind of being too sensationalist about it. You know, one of the things that I was introduced to and kind of agreed to do on from a role modelling point of view, was to access psychosocial support. And it’s one of the best things I ever did. And I would really, kind of, you know, this is a leadership podcast. It’s one of the things I would really recommend that people have in their their locker and and use, in addition to the usual stuff around coaching, mentoring and peer mentoring and all that kind of support that you need. But I think when you go through that level of trauma and stress, you need to find new ways of getting the best possible support in order to be the best leader that you can be, because things will go wrong. The question is, how you deal with them when they do go wrong. That that’s not just for me. That’s for lots of people who were affected by lots of the things we had to deal with.
Jane Ide 18:16
That point about things will go wrong is a really important point for our our listeners, because I so often I see chief executives, especially, especially when they’re in their first or maybe their second role, feeling it’s their job to stop things from going wrong and to make sure everything’s perfect. And then they feel very bruised when something does go wrong. And I think it’s it is something that comes with experience, isn’t it? That realisation that you can’t control everything, and you have to have the mechanisms for responding to that in the right way. But I’m I’m curious, and I don’t know if it’s a question you can answer or not, but when you look back to the sort of leader you were, say at the NUS, and as you started the scales, and you think about what sort of leader you are now, leaving aside the obvious that, you know, we all learn from experience, and we all get older, inevitably, every day, and all of those things impact. But do you think what you had to navigate through at the scouts? And you’re right, I think there is such a such a clear your your group is that you were talking about stakeholders earlier. We’ll come back to that in a minute, maybe, but, but the group of stakeholders you had at scouts was uncountable, every parent, every child, every person who’s ever been a member of that movement having an interest in what you do, all of that. Do you think that has changed the sort of leader that you are now? And are you able to see that, or is it still, is it still too recent? Is it still too, too, too much in the processing do you think?
Matt Hyde 19:43
I think I am still processing a lot of it, but undoubtedly it changed me as a leader. Like all of these things are experience that shape your who you are, how you deal with things. Context is everything. I think you know where some things cross your desk, and you know that when you’re at a different point in your career, you might think they’re really serious, but actually, when you’ve dealt with really, really serious stuff, I think you can, you know, you really do get a sense of, don’t sweat the small stuff. I also think you, I mean, I was at akivo conference. We were talking about this earlier and how leaders had the session on how leaders had adapted to serious challenge and crisis in their own lives. I think it does make you step back and think about how much am I giving of my whole self to this job? And there are other people in my life as well, and you sometimes underestimate how much it impacts on those as well. And I think when you’re younger, you drive, drive, drive, or I did anyway, I kind of like, have this sort of big focus on, you know, ambitious ambitions for my career and my job. And, of course, I’m still ambitious. But I think if you don’t have that sense of context, you don’t probably appreciate in the same way what the people around you go through when they’re going to have things that happen in their lives as well. And so, you know, I, you know, even when I was at NUS, had a personal situation where a loved one was very ill, and fortunately, she pulled through, and it was all fine in the end, but that was happening at the same time as I was at NUS, negotiating alongside student offices about tuition fees with David Willits and Vince Cable and others, if you remember those days, and there was the demonstration of about 50,000 people in London, and you may remember the images, there was a breakaway group. Broke into Milbank tower, and, you know, someone then threw a fire extinguisher off the roof, and if it had been about a foot to the left, it probably would have killed someone so and I remember on that day thinking, we’ll be all right here. As long as we get through and everyone’s safe, well, then work out what we do after that. But that was a very formative moment for me, because it really made me again think there are first principles here when you’re dealing with the crisis, which is, is everyone okay? And then how you think about the people around you and how they are dealing with the situation, and then critically, how you learn from it as an organisation, and the things that we did, you know, more recently at scouts, you know, we kind of had to publish that learning so that people could see what we were doing, and we Were being as transparent as possible. But then there’s what you learn as an individual through those situations as well. And some of that, I think, you learn immediately, and some take. Some of it takes a bit longer to process.
Jane Ide 23:15
You’ve just been talking about what you’ve learned, and I think, I think there is so much in there. One of the things that’s going through my mind is, is, I think also when you’ve been in those situations where literally, lives might be at risk, I’m guessing it kind of helps you keep things in perspective. Sometimes, when the the what we might call the bin fires, rather than the bonfires, land on your desk, one of the things I wanted to just pick up with you was you talked about how having moved through the various organisations you’ve moved through, you’ve learned to exit better. And I think for a lot of people listening to this, that will be a very relevant point, or relevant thread for us to pull out a little bit. And I’m I’m curious, given that you’ve probably recently, I’ve done trying to think now, is it six months or so?
Matt Hyde 23:59
Yes, yeah, six months.
Jane Ide 24:01
So how did you leave Scouts? Well, what was, what were the important things for you in making sure that you left as well as you could? What did that mean for you?
Matt Hyde 24:11
Well, I think you need to ensure that you said what you need to say to the right stakeholders before you leave, and that you are particularly spending enough time thanking people and being grateful for those that have really, really been with you on the journey. And in a way, that’s a risk when you’re leaving. And I’ve had this in the past, I have to confess, where it can become quite self intelligent when you’re leaving. And it could, it’s all about you, and it kind of is right if you ever leaving do, it is about you, but it’s actually not about you. The only reason that. If you’ve had success, the only reason that’s happened is because of the people around you, that you are only as good in leadership as your backup team. You’re only as good as the people around you, and yeah, as a leader, you’ve got to set the right conditions and all of that. But it’s only the team ethos and that the backup team is, is, is takes many different forms. It’s your senior leadership team. It’s your board, in our case, at scouts, it was senior volunteers as well. It’s the peers across the sector that was so critical, and continue to be so critical to my to be able to be that sounding board support, and I hope that you know, I play that the same role with them also. It’s your mentors, it’s your coaches, it’s your family, it’s your friends, it’s, it’s all of those people are your backup team, and unless you have those around you, you don’t have the scaffolding that you need to deal with the intensity of a high pressure leadership role.
Jane Ide 26:17
No, you’re well, yeah, I think you’re absolutely right. And then any leader that doesn’t understand or appreciate that is is going to come to a very hard realisation very quickly. I think you’re, you’re you’re so right there and and we’re talking about endings, but of course, we’re also talking about beginnings, because you have moved into a new role. And you said, just now, and I’m sure I won’t be the only person listening to this kind of itching to just know a little bit more. You said you started your new role at Lloyd’s with a very clear intention to ask every stakeholder you talk to the same five questions. Are you able to share what those five questions are, or at least give us the shape of them?
Matt Hyde 26:56
I’ve always asked similar ones, and I did this, get this from someone else, and actually behind me, I’ve got the book the first 90 days, which, if people are starting a new role, I would recommend. It was recommended to me. So it changes, obviously, with the organisation I go to, but I do ask people about what they hope i’ll do, what they’re fearful or worried that I might do. I ask them for any advice they may have for me, it will then be a question probably a bit more strategic or relevant to the organisation around what we’re particularly good at. And also what might be an area that we could do more of or stop doing. You know, they’re the sorts. They’re the sort of questions I would ask. And then, of course, what’s probably a bit like this interview, Jane, you there. You then go where your nose takes you. So but I think what’s helpful about that is you’re able to triangulate different perspectives from different stakeholders. So whether it’s your board, your staff, in our instance, charity partners, other people in the sector, it gives you a good framing. And then what I tend to do is I would do a sort of 3030 30 day approach. So 30 days in, you develop a hunch. 30 days after that, you start to play back to those different stakeholders, what you’re hearing. And then 30 days after that, I mean, ultimately, I fed back to staff at Christmas and and the board in January. Then about, look, here’s what I’m seeing. Here’s my intended next course of action. What do you think about that? What am I missing? And and get some kind of mandate for the year ahead after that.
Jane Ide 28:53
I think that that’s very wise advice, a very good framework to be be starting, for anybody starting their new role. And I’m slightly, slightly tongue in cheek, but I’m thinking I’m really pleased for you, after all your experience in the scouts that you’ve had about 90 days without something landing on your desk that flow the entire plan. And I’m trusting that that’s the case, but, but you are now, and I think this is one of the things I find interesting looking at your career path so far, you are now in a role that is really specifically the Lloyds Bank foundation is very specifically there to support other charities. And it’s certainly in the time I’ve known it, in the time I’ve been in the sector, had an absolute commitment to the small but mighty, the smaller charities, the ones that perhaps don’t make the headlines in the same way. But now that you’re in that role that is not specifically around leading a brand name charity to do what that brand name charity does, but in much more one, I suppose I hate the phrase, but what we would call an infrastructure organisation. What do you see now that you’ve been there six months? And what are you seeing as the real challenges for the sector and what are the big opportunities for us as well?
Matt Hyde 30:05
Well as you know, Jane, it’s pretty tough out there, and I really do worry about the resilience of so many charities, particularly the more local community organisations that I’ve seen so many of but actually charities of all sizes, and also the leaders within them. I mean, a lot of that starts and ends with money. I mean, even prior to the rise in National Insurance contributions, we were seeing the impact of cost of living. COVID reserves being depleted. Local Authority funding, drying out, commissioning, not keeping pace with those additional costs as well, and that being particularly difficult, where specifically, when you look at things like National Insurance, whereby public sector organisations, some are getting those either not to pay that National Insurance contributions, still getting a decent pay rise, and other charities just not being able to cope with that as well. And then government cuts on top of, you know, we’ve just seen, haven’t we, in the last few weeks, about US and UK, a cuts as well. So it’s no surprise really, that trusts and foundations are being overwhelmed with so so much demand for for funding, funding because, you know, the watering hole is getting smaller, and there’s kind of more animals around the watering hole. I think we’ve seen the impact of local the cuts of local voluntary sector infrastructure as well. So, you know, one of the themes that came through, I think, in the ACEVO conference, and that we’re seeing a lot is then the impact that has on the mental health and well being of charity sector to leaders. So I do think it’s a very, very tough time, and, you know, we need a serious response as a sector. So what you know, what are the opportunities? Well, it’s really clear to me that whoever is in government for the next 510, 15 years and beyond, you are facing the same tectonic shifts in an ageing population, certainly in the short term, at least serious economic pressures, and now the kind of like dystopia world that we find ourselves in, in terms of the international context also, and this is where it probably gets a little bit Political, because not everyone will agree with this analysis, but I think it’s quite difficult to envisage the state becoming much bigger than it is already, and there are shortcomings with a pure state driven solutions. And equally, the market we all we’ve seen in the last couple of decades is not the solution to all of these problems as well, although it has a role. And therefore, the third pillar of civil society strikes me as being as important as it’s ever been to play its role in a decade of renewal for the country and beyond. You know, you can’t deal with the you’re not going to be able to deal with the demand within health unless, as the government and the Secretary of State for Health and Social Care, you know, my president of NUS West Streeton would say, you know, unless you shift towards community. I mean, the reality is, all those small organisations I’ve seen are already preventing more people going to A E or to their GP. They’re already speeding up the recovery. They’re already helping people get into employment and giving them the skills and the confidence. And particularly those small charities, one of the things I’ve been struck by them, it’s the relational impact they have by that one to one support of I’m going to be with you every step of the way that I do think sometimes you can lose at scale and context because you start to think in numbers rather than individuals. And that is very, very powerful to the for the good of the country. How do we get that message across to the public, and how do we get across that? Actually, it’s not all about volunteers, as important as that is in the role that volunteers have to play, and I still think we need a proper volunteering strategy that we can enact for the country that thinks more about the giving of time and pro social behaviours, but that actually is genuinely thinking this is such an innate good to invest in community organisations and communities that we have to find sustainable funding solutions that help that. Now the bit for us at the sector, therefore, is, I think we. Got to make that case with the public, and make it in a way that is compelling and accessible about the need to invest in civil society and community led change. I think we’ve got to find new ways of generating income and new sources of income. So, I mean, I really welcome the central Social Justice Report the other week on turbo charging, or they say supercharging, I can’t remember what it was, but getting more philanthropy into the system.
Jane Ide 35:28
And it strikes me listening to you that you are, I wouldn’t say it’s a unique role, because there will be others as well, but, but you are in a very specific and unusual space now, as the leader of a funder, funded by a private sector organisation, with that very clear connection and understanding with the sector in a very broad sense. Do you see your role now as being one of convening and bringing people together in a way that perhaps hasn’t and really helping to drive that systems thinking, rather than the individual brand thinking that we’ve we’ve perhaps have.
Matt Hyde 36:07
Yes and you know, role models in the sector that I have, like Dame Julia , or Dame Ann Lim my chair and others. That’s what they do brilliantly. They convene across sectors, and they are brand agnostic. So yes, I see my role as absolutely doing that and using all of those experiences from the last you know, what is it 24 years as a chief exec in the in the sector, but also for having made lots of connections across government, public sector and business. But how do we bring those people together to drive innovation and showcase what good looks like joining up the dots? I mean, you know, I’ve become a bit of a hostage to Claudia for doing these kind of pride and reflections on LinkedIn every week. I sort of sort of regret doing it now. But what I like from that, what’s interesting is, when I’ve been doing, you know, posting every Friday about what I’ve been seeing, part of what I’m trying to do is do the storytelling of joining up the dots, and what that’s leading to is interesting, then people contact me and say, Oh, wow, that’s really interesting. I saw this over here. I think there is a role for us as in that slightly different space, that is about storytelling, joining up, the dogs, convening. That’s where the systems change will come from. And as part of that, there is a role to champion the sector. And yes, you’re right. That is absolutely about us championing small charities that are vital to the health of the country and and it’s also, I think, about championing community development. That also is about systems change. It is about saying that, you know, there is an incredible power in people and communities who can sometimes self mobilise. And we saw this within COVID In particular, that, you know, I think there’s a role for us to get behind as well. Indeed we do, because we’re in, you know, a number of localities where we are doing place based systems change through our people and communities work where we are working in the infrastructure to get all the actors in the system working together, and that includes identifying where there is funding locally. Because some, you know, we sometimes there’s no money about, well, there kind of is, right? I get that, you know, there were just these straightened economic times, but there is money in the system within health. It’s just not necessarily in the right places. And I think, you know, but so how, what? That’s why I’m so interested in the philanthropy piece, because then that point that the sense of social justice we’re making, and Cath have made as well, about match funding, leveraging more funding. How do we get the sort of right conditions and incentives to drive the right behaviours to generate more more income that is the going into communities and with to drive community vaccination.
Jane Ide 39:22
And I think there’s something about our sector. I think I’m sure it’s true in other sectors as well, but I think it’s really, really obvious in our sector that that as leaders and of leaders of our sector as well as leaders of our own organisations, we have to, we have to balance. We have to always be looking at the here and now on what is needed right now, but we also have a really important responsibility for the future, to make sure our sector is here to deliver for future communities. And I was just thinking that this is this is another of those threads that I can see running through your 24 years as a chief executive, you are really passionate about supporting emerging but. Because everything that you’ve done, when I look at it now, is about your beneficiaries have always been future leaders, aren’t they? They’ve been students, they’ve been young people. What’s your feeling about where we sit now as a sector in terms of attracting new talent and emerging talent into leadership roles in our sector? And if you had one lesson to share with another civil society leader that’s just at the start of their journey. What do you think that would be?
Matt Hyde 40:28
I don’t think we’re in great shape when it comes to recruiting and attracting new talent. I look I spend a lot of time with some amazing young leaders in the sector, but I think we have to ask ourselves why we’re in a kind of doom loop when it comes to diversity and representation within civil society leadership, particularly at senior levels. You know, I’m struck by some of the work that Derek baderwell has done at 10 years time, which I think is impressive. I’ve always been a fan of charity works and how they are trying to again, be a catalyst for talent in the sector. You’ll know that I set up a degree apprenticeship for social change at Queen Mary University of London, but you know, ultimately, that’s no longer running, not because there wasn’t the demand from young people. There was, we actually, in the first year, had more people applying for that course than were applying for Oxbridge courses. It was because we didn’t have enough charities who were able to step up to take those people on pay them an apprenticeship wage. Now, I mean, I kind of got my own views on that, but, you know, okay, fine, that didn’t work. So we need a different solution. And really, I suppose, well, you know, I’m passionate about it, because I wouldn’t be where I wasn’t I am now, were it not for the fact that, yes, I did the formal qualifications around doing an MBA and things like that. But if you look at the US, you look at Canada, you look at Australia, there aren’t the same accelerated programmes. I don’t think here or that where they do exist. They are rare. But also, you know, putting aside the formal learning, I where I’ve got, where I’ve got to buy great mentors, great coaches, and I just think that’s something we undervalue. I mean, even it’s interesting, you know, you look at work experience, you know, we should be cleaning up for a generation that are interested in social change and social purpose and meaning in their lives. And I think it’s even harder for young people coming through where they’re having less in person experiences as well. So I don’t believe we’ve got we’re doing ourselves justice given the opportunity that’s there and the demand that’s there, what would I say to leaders who are starting out on that journey? I think networking as much as you can allows you to spend time and learn from other people you know, finding those role models or finding people who you can take inspiration from. There’s some great stuff happening around peer support in that space as well. So this isn’t just about people who’ve been around in the sector for a long time. It’s about taking inspiration from the people around you as well. You know, there’s a common thread, I think, in terms of all we’ve been talking about, it’s about who you surround yourself with. It’s about who you spend time with. That’s where you get your energy and your inspiration and your support.
Jane Ide 43:41
We’re going to run out of time, unfortunately. But I want to finish with one last question, if I may. What is it that for you, personally, as a leader, what gives you hope and how do you keep your your well being and your motivation at the forefront of your thinking?
Matt Hyde 43:56
Well, it’s a scary time for the world, isn’t it? It’s quite difficult some days to keep that sense of optimism and hope, but it is our job as leaders to give that sense of hope and optimism. And I am, you know, I am very optimistic about what I see, about young people coming through and that generation who are looking for a more inclusive, sustainable world. You know, ultimately, whilst things might look bleak now, they have looked bleak in the past, and it was the strength of movements and good people coming together to stand up for a what a better world looks like. That is what gives us hope. So we have to do all of us what we can do in our bit of that, where we’re one piece of the jigsaw, but by working together and supporting each other and giving each other strength. But actually, I think, challenging. Ourselves as well and not being comfortable that we, you know, we’ve got all the answers. I think anyone who believes in a more quote progressive world, think there are, you know, we’ve got to look at lessons from the US as well and think about, Okay, what does that mean for doing things differently and engaging with communities that we might not disagree with. I mean, this is, this is the world like the world I grew up with. Not everyone would be in this bracket. But I remember in 2016 driving to the to the Norfolk coast, and every window I went past and in the villages around where I grew up had a vote length based run, but no one around me in London was having that conversation. So I think that that is a wake up call to us, you know, but ultimately, I do think that people want a inclusive community. I do think people want to be together, and civil society needs to be at the heart of that. We need to make the case for that.
Jane Ide 46:04
Thank you, Matt. I think that’s a really great note for us to finish on, and a thread that’s run through several of the conversations I’ve had with other leaders that that we each play our own small part, a million lights come together and drive away into darkness. And I think that’s a very important message for all of our listeners, who I know will sometimes feel a bit overwhelmed at the idea of trying to change the world, but but actually are doing a fantastic job each and every one of them in their own space, and I think that’s very true of your career as well. So thank you, Matt, it’s been absolute pleasure to talk to you. Really appreciate you giving us the time, and we will see you again very soon.
Matt Hyde 46:41
Thank you, Jane.
